- Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:05 pm
#14343
Hi everyone, Ive been having a conversation with @TedP about this on another thread about pricing and felt it needed to be its own topic of discussion. Here is the conversation so far.
TED
There is a lot more to go . . . I think 32 pieces total, which is about double of the last boat I did a couple of years ago. I have 7 pieces done, so I'm taking a look at my average time per piece and projecting my schedule. Working on it some nights and most weekends.
My average time so far is about 5-6 hours per piece, which includes
Removal of the old skin from the base or backing
Marking and disassembly of the panels
Cutting new fabric pieces from the old pieces as templates
Gluing the Sew Foam backing and trimming any excess
Sewing new panels together
Fitting the new skin to the existing seat frame/base.
Just wondering if this amount of time sounds about right, or if there are some time-saving steps I should consider ?
If I were to do this semi-professionally, I'm wondering what labor rate would be appropriate? If each seat piece (base, backrest, etc.) is taking about 5 hours then the base cushion I posted a few days ago might be $300 (assuming $50/hour + materials/supplies), which feels a bit high (maybe not ?)
If I were to price out this entire boat re-upholster project, 32 pieces at 5 hours per piece. It would come out to about $8,000 in labor and $2,500 in material, or $10,500 total (@ a $50/hr labor rate).
I guess that is OK . . . If my 'rate' was more like $75/hr the total job would be $14,500 . . . that might be a bit high.
Thanks in advance for any input on the time and hourly rate if I were to do this work for others (right now just doing my own stuff)
JOHN
Estimating is very difficult with upholstery because there are sooo many variables. This is why I encourage people to get out of the set price / estimate model as soon as they can and focus on building a customer base that is willing to pay for quality and not the cheapest they can find. I understand that when starting out thats hard to do but it should be you goal to get to that point.
I feel pretty strongly that every trimmer that does good work should be aiming to charge at least $100 per hour. This makes some people starting out uncomfortable but if you look at other similar industries their shop rates are rarely under $100 per hour these days. Automotive repair shops now days charge between $100 and $250 an hour! Your skills are no less valuable than other trades.
At this point in my carrier I personally wont even turn the lights on for a job that doesn't pay that and all of the high end trimmers are the same way. This industry needs to start valuing their skills more and not be so scared of customers that expect to pay you pennies. Its our fault that customers across the country think that way because we continue to take the jobs at that price.
The key to getting to charge for every hour and not a set estimate is being very honest and upfront with the customer about the estimate not being a guarantee and keeping them looped in on set backs throughout the project. For example I recently did a plane interior that went more that %50 over the estimate. I notified the customer about all of the broken parts and problems I came across once getting the interior apart and how I recommend we fix it. That's how it works at an automotive repair shop right? If they start the job and find another problem they call you and tell you its gonna cost x to fix the problem. They would never fix it for free because of an estimate. It should be no different for us. At the end of the project the customer was extremely happy with the end result because he knew what he paid for because I was honest and upfront. If I had not kept him informed he would have justifiably been very angry upon receiving the bill.
Again I understand when your just starting out and building a reputation this isn't realistic but it should be your intention to get to that point because if you get stuck with the reputation of being the lowest price in town your gonna end up too much work, customers that dont value you, no time and wonder why your just barely getting by and busting your ass.
Sorry for the rant but the business side and pricing side of upholstery is something I'm really passionate about. I hate seeing people so drastically undervalue their skills and the demand for those skills. Its a big problem in trade and I hope to help fix that one day...
Hope this helps!!!
TED
Very helpful @John . I appreciate your guidance.
This being the third boat I've done over the years, I feel like I'm getting better at the stitching, but not really any faster (yet). I'm a few years away from retirement at the day job and considering if this might be a good line of part-time work afterwards (or not).
I guess I'd have to balance my speed and what I'd want to earn ($$$) to come up with a marketable rate. Probably price things by the job, not the hour, which I think you recommend in some other posts on the subject of pricing. As I get more time on my hands, I might try taking 1 or 2 boat upholstery jobs just to see how it works out.
TED
There is a lot more to go . . . I think 32 pieces total, which is about double of the last boat I did a couple of years ago. I have 7 pieces done, so I'm taking a look at my average time per piece and projecting my schedule. Working on it some nights and most weekends.
My average time so far is about 5-6 hours per piece, which includes
Removal of the old skin from the base or backing
Marking and disassembly of the panels
Cutting new fabric pieces from the old pieces as templates
Gluing the Sew Foam backing and trimming any excess
Sewing new panels together
Fitting the new skin to the existing seat frame/base.
Just wondering if this amount of time sounds about right, or if there are some time-saving steps I should consider ?
If I were to do this semi-professionally, I'm wondering what labor rate would be appropriate? If each seat piece (base, backrest, etc.) is taking about 5 hours then the base cushion I posted a few days ago might be $300 (assuming $50/hour + materials/supplies), which feels a bit high (maybe not ?)
If I were to price out this entire boat re-upholster project, 32 pieces at 5 hours per piece. It would come out to about $8,000 in labor and $2,500 in material, or $10,500 total (@ a $50/hr labor rate).
I guess that is OK . . . If my 'rate' was more like $75/hr the total job would be $14,500 . . . that might be a bit high.
Thanks in advance for any input on the time and hourly rate if I were to do this work for others (right now just doing my own stuff)
JOHN
Estimating is very difficult with upholstery because there are sooo many variables. This is why I encourage people to get out of the set price / estimate model as soon as they can and focus on building a customer base that is willing to pay for quality and not the cheapest they can find. I understand that when starting out thats hard to do but it should be you goal to get to that point.
I feel pretty strongly that every trimmer that does good work should be aiming to charge at least $100 per hour. This makes some people starting out uncomfortable but if you look at other similar industries their shop rates are rarely under $100 per hour these days. Automotive repair shops now days charge between $100 and $250 an hour! Your skills are no less valuable than other trades.
At this point in my carrier I personally wont even turn the lights on for a job that doesn't pay that and all of the high end trimmers are the same way. This industry needs to start valuing their skills more and not be so scared of customers that expect to pay you pennies. Its our fault that customers across the country think that way because we continue to take the jobs at that price.
The key to getting to charge for every hour and not a set estimate is being very honest and upfront with the customer about the estimate not being a guarantee and keeping them looped in on set backs throughout the project. For example I recently did a plane interior that went more that %50 over the estimate. I notified the customer about all of the broken parts and problems I came across once getting the interior apart and how I recommend we fix it. That's how it works at an automotive repair shop right? If they start the job and find another problem they call you and tell you its gonna cost x to fix the problem. They would never fix it for free because of an estimate. It should be no different for us. At the end of the project the customer was extremely happy with the end result because he knew what he paid for because I was honest and upfront. If I had not kept him informed he would have justifiably been very angry upon receiving the bill.
Again I understand when your just starting out and building a reputation this isn't realistic but it should be your intention to get to that point because if you get stuck with the reputation of being the lowest price in town your gonna end up too much work, customers that dont value you, no time and wonder why your just barely getting by and busting your ass.
Sorry for the rant but the business side and pricing side of upholstery is something I'm really passionate about. I hate seeing people so drastically undervalue their skills and the demand for those skills. Its a big problem in trade and I hope to help fix that one day...
Hope this helps!!!
TED
Very helpful @John . I appreciate your guidance.
This being the third boat I've done over the years, I feel like I'm getting better at the stitching, but not really any faster (yet). I'm a few years away from retirement at the day job and considering if this might be a good line of part-time work afterwards (or not).
I guess I'd have to balance my speed and what I'd want to earn ($$$) to come up with a marketable rate. Probably price things by the job, not the hour, which I think you recommend in some other posts on the subject of pricing. As I get more time on my hands, I might try taking 1 or 2 boat upholstery jobs just to see how it works out.