General discussions about our craft and industry.
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By RyanFreeborn
#421
I'm fairly new to the upholstery trade and am only doing basic panel replacements and foam rebuilds for automotive seats with a little marine and furniture here and there. I've been hesitant to do any panel replacements in cars with airbags in the bolster of the backrest, not because of no confidence, but because I've heard they use a certain type of airbag thread from the factory that people in our trade cant get. Does anybody have any experience with this?
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By BigRig
#422
This is a great question!

I have seen the airbags in the back of the seats and was going to ask this question myself. I recovered in vinyl and would think the force of the air bag going off would rip the stitches right through the vinyl.

This is a very important question to be answered.There may be liabilities for soft tissue injury/death if a airbag malfunctioned due to my customization of a seat.
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By RyanFreeborn
#424
Thanks BigRig. The possibility of injury/death has been my worry too. I've talked to my insurance company and they've told me to have my customers sign a waiver, but I still am leary of doing them. Just wanted to know if anybody else does these, and if so, where can we get the proper thread for it?
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By John
#435
Hi @RyanFreeborn Welcome to the forum!

So this has been a topic Ive been following pretty closely. The problem is that Automotive manufactures refuse to release any information or training on the seam construction methods used on airbag seats. The manufactures say to buy new covers from the dealer. But we all know that doesn't solve the problem. Especially when they stop making covers for older cars.

There are lots of opinions on this topic. Some say to use a thinner thread. Some say that airbags are so powerful it doesn't matter it will just rip through the fabric. Ive even heard of some people using cotton thread instead of polyester. These are just things I have read and heard. Most of the things I do are on older cars but this is becoming an unavoidable problem and I have the same concern you do guys do.

My advice is that anyone how wants to do airbags seats... Have a lawyer draft a universal waiver to use for customers that are willing to sign away all liability and understands that the seat has been modified from original specifications. This will cost a few hundred dollars but is money well spent.

Here are 2 articles disusing this. You might be interested in reading.
http://www.thehogring.com/2016/02/10/sh ... ts-either/
http://www.thehogring.com/2012/03/03/wa ... his-cover/

Hope this helps guys!
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By BigRig
#439
Thank you John,

This information is very helpful and I have asked a local supplier here about threads and the air bag issue. I will be anxiously waiting for their reply today.
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By RyanFreeborn
#442
Thanks John! This is a great site and forum, I really appreciate all of your input and information. Thanks to all of you on your help with this subject. Looks like for now I'll probably just have to pass on any of these kind of repairs.
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By Bondo497
#447
@RyanFreeborn that would probably be a good call, even with a signed waiver from the owner may not stop a family member from coming after you it all went south, these things are NEVER iron clad!
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By BigRig
#461
Feedback from an Upholstery supplier that has car manufactures in their city was tough. They said they have been truing to get this information out of the car manufactures for a long time and they will not give them any information on the thread or how to work around this issue.
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By John
#470
@RyanFreeborn glad it was helpful!

Bondo497 wrote:@RyanFreeborn that would probably be a good call, even with a signed waiver from the owner may not stop a family member from coming after you it all went south, these things are NEVER iron clad!
Yeah thats very true. Lawsuits are just out of control these days...

@BigRig That's a bummer. Thanks for sharing the results...
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By Bondo497
#472
@John
You are absolutely right about that. Until there are some standards in upholsering these applications like say for instance ICAR in the auto body world that we can fall back on say we did it correctly without a shadow of a doubt we need to steer clear.
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By Cale
#4104
After reading, participantly discussing and thinking about this subject I have become moved to do an independent experiment. Since there is no clear information out there on this subject, only speculations and tight lips I think that action is in order to get some concrete information out to the general public. Well, general public as in trimmers and such.

This is only going to be a growing concern in the future and is NOT going to go away. So, with that, I have developed an experiment to test what works and what does not work. I have some friends that deal with late model salvage vehicles and I am going to begin contacting them to see if I can get some seats and other trim pieces that have air bags in them to experiment with.

I am planning on doing a film documentary on the test, process and results. I might get shut down by youtube and the other, more experienced upholstery folks but hey, at least we'll know the secrets.

However, the big challenge will probably be to find a company willing to donate some material to the cause. So, if anyone has any connections to vinyl and leather suppliers that might be willing to participate and show off there materials I would be very much appreciative. Plus, if this is a community effort then we all can benefit from the information that will be found.
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By BigRig
#4105
@Cale,

This will keep you busy!

As you suggested these appplications will not be going away, neither will suing or claims for personal injury in a motor veichle.
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By Cale
#4106
@BigRig
If my hypothesis is correct, the devices can be recovered to perform as the manufacturer intended. Thus reducing the risk of injury due to the new or repaired cover which, in turn, should minimize legal risks.
By IvanD
#4109
@Cale

I watched some videos and they all said it's thinner thread. As engineer myself I can tell it's about thread. Otherwise how would they offer different leathers/fabrics? They wouldn't put different airbags for different covers, right?

So, all it takes is to take some seats apart and remove thread from seam with and without airbag, compare those. And then test them for "ripping strength". I think if you test 2-3 - you will get good idea on what it is and if you use thread which is weaker than factory than there going to be no issue with airbag deploying whatsoever.

Another thing to watch is stitch length. The more SPI - the harder seam going to be to distroy.
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By John
#4148
@Cale This is a great idea. I have thought about doing something like this as well but haven't acted on it. Wish I could help you with suppliers donating material but I haven't even found anyone willing to do that for my videos yet. :disappointed:

If there is anything I can do to help let me know.
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By BigRig
#10565
@Cale, I think about this topic a lot especially with the inabilty to put a seat cover on made by a reputable company becasue somebody has exclusive rights in your area. I am wondering where you are at with the research?
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By MalcolmM
#11771
I had this issue a few years ago and didn't sew the feld part of the seam around the airbag in the bolster. I false top stitched it so it matched, but around the airbag is only a simple seam which is presumably weaker than the felled seam on either side of it since it only has one row of stitched holding the fabric together. The legal liability is another matter all together. If I did it again I would get a "waiver" but no waver prevents you from being sued, it does help in court though and is worth the effort obtaining it and explaining to the client that it's NOT a factory authorized service.
John liked this

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